tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-791817892794754996.post5390917747685797314..comments2023-11-18T08:59:54.598+00:00Comments on Carmarthenshire Planning Problems and more: Fire hazards - complaint to the Councilcaebrwynhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17233902574832152764noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-791817892794754996.post-77875064418663808502011-11-18T13:11:40.964+00:002011-11-18T13:11:40.964+00:00firstly need to obtain a copy of the Fire Service ...firstly need to obtain a copy of the Fire Service Policy on Electronic Locking of Fire Escape Doors and then ask the council if they comply with this advice and also the British StandardAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-791817892794754996.post-80883072834818532912011-11-18T13:10:58.764+00:002011-11-18T13:10:58.764+00:003.It is always very difficult to assess these prob...3.It is always very difficult to assess these problems because these electronic locking devices can be wired in a number of ways and its only when you carry out a full test that you can determine how they release. There is also the problem of terminology because if you ask a security specialist what is meant by fail safe they will mean "fail secured" but if you ask a fire specialist he will mean "fail open" and so you can see that it can be a minefield.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-791817892794754996.post-40710924965318832892011-11-18T13:10:29.691+00:002011-11-18T13:10:29.691+00:002.If you look at http://www.ucl.ac.uk/estates/main...2.If you look at http://www.ucl.ac.uk/estates/maintenance/fire/documents/UCLFire_TN_001.pdf you will see that there is reference to a number of British Standards and it is important that the locks are installed to these standards. You will also note that in the document from London Fire Brigade it does point out that their use in certain areas where the public are present is not recommended. I don't know what position they take in Wales but it should be something similar.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-791817892794754996.post-48801970404362990232011-11-18T13:09:50.712+00:002011-11-18T13:09:50.712+00:001.This is the advice that is usually given about E...1.This is the advice that is usually given about Electronic Locking Devices when carrying out a Fire Risk Assessment:"Employees should be able to open doors quickly and easily without the use of a key and they should not have to undo more than one security device. If the doors are required to be secured but used by significant numbers or people unfamiliar with the premises, such as the public, the use of push bars, push pads or similar opening devices is recommended. All employees or regular building users in the case of community buildings, need to be trained on how to operate any security device and operating signs may be needed to ensure understanding of this. When conducting this part of the assessment, look critically at any electronic locking system and ensure that it de-energises and is operable on actuation of the fire alarm or failure of the power supply. Also look carefully at the use of mechanical number locks within the workplace. It should be obvious that you would not want to be confronted by a numerical locking system and have to remember the number to be able to escape from a fire." (anon2)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-791817892794754996.post-21881324306438228192011-11-09T21:27:34.120+00:002011-11-09T21:27:34.120+00:00Thanks for your email and I agree that on the face...Thanks for your email and I agree that on the face of it there appears to be a problem and it is a good job that it has been recognised at this early stage and before someone has been injured. The locking of fire exit doors with electronic locks has been the cause of deaths in the past and there is now a guidance note on how they should be incorporated which requires a great detail of care but does look at the integration into a fire alarm system and the problems of external power supplies.,<br /><br />anon2Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-791817892794754996.post-77299371346388281742011-11-09T08:33:09.451+00:002011-11-09T08:33:09.451+00:00"Emergency Exit" or a "Fire Exit&qu..."Emergency Exit" or a "Fire Exit". what signage is actually between the doors? or on the door itself....<br /><br />a fire risk assessment may indicate the need for the doors to open in the direction of escape if a higher risk of fire and/or evacuation than would normally be expected existed in the premises.<br /><br />The default to open should also be on failure of the power supply to the automatic device.<br /><br />consider a locking device that is secure from the outside but can be easily opened without a key or code from within. As a fire exit it must always be usable from within.<br /><br />(anon 2)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-791817892794754996.post-85545320945157082882011-11-08T21:14:53.020+00:002011-11-08T21:14:53.020+00:00I have to agree with the last comment, this counci...I have to agree with the last comment, this council have developed farce into an art form. <br /><br />@Cneifiwr this is from Mr Colin Davies who apparently is in charge of democracy, however it seems he may be soon out of job as there's barely any left to be in charge of. In fact I believe the Council may not bother having an election next year and they will be doing away with Councillors altogether :)<br />I shall ask the wardens tomorrow to make sure the exterior door is left open so there's a direct line of escape from the noxious fumes of the Chamber...<br />I am also going to add some wording to the undertaking (unless everyone present refuses to sign??)in that it's unlawful, undemocratic and not binding.caebrwynhttp://www.carmarthenplanning.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-791817892794754996.post-67899398650080592772011-11-08T17:53:40.243+00:002011-11-08T17:53:40.243+00:00I haven't stopped laughing yet at this council...I haven't stopped laughing yet at this council's reply! If you tried to write it yourself it would be difficult. Only this council could trump up such a piece of farce and folly. It is a script worthy of a comedy sketch. A cross between 'Yes Minister and 'The thin Blue Line!!! Unbelievable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-791817892794754996.post-86672540507746796832011-11-08T15:35:34.621+00:002011-11-08T15:35:34.621+00:00i am beginning to understand the council are more ...i am beginning to understand the council are more complacent than i imagined. ignorance, arrogance and negligant springs to mind...<br /><br />if there was a fire between the locked door and the gallery, or wherever, heaven forbid that a fire does not break out and the person(s) inside the gallery are not disabled,wheelchair bound, or have some sort of condition that is too much for them to descend as the route of escape is not manageable to climb down over the balcony.<br /><br />farce.<br /><br />(anon 2)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-791817892794754996.post-71204082729781348372011-11-08T14:32:56.785+00:002011-11-08T14:32:56.785+00:00Was there a name attached to that very insolent an...Was there a name attached to that very insolent and arrogant reply? Your complaint was polite and to the point. Whoever wrote the response clearly has no manners, no judgment and obviously regards the public as stupid and inferior.<br /><br />Can I suggest that you send your complaint and the reply to one of the councillors on the fire authority - Dyfrig Thomas would be a good choice.Cneifiwrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08767078276794410524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-791817892794754996.post-35137350776787719792011-11-08T13:46:04.853+00:002011-11-08T13:46:04.853+00:00Regarding the Council reply, I have a number of qu...Regarding the Council reply, I have a number of queries.<br /><br />What happens if the fire/smoke are positioned between the Public Gallery and the Fire Warden, or affect the power to the door releasing mechanism?<br /><br />Unless the Annual Inspection has recently been undertaken, it will not have included the new 'Locked Doors Policy'.<br /><br />Finally, what if there is a non-fire emergency that you have to escape from in the Public Galery?<br /><br /><br />Craig M.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-791817892794754996.post-34228439230980825872011-11-07T15:59:45.882+00:002011-11-07T15:59:45.882+00:00@Mr Mustard fancy making such a suggestion...and q...@Mr Mustard fancy making such a suggestion...and quite right @Mrs Angry...<br />The serious point being that until the 8th June 'incident' the Council neither knew nor cared who was in the Public Gallery, access in and out had been un-monitored and un-hindered ever since the local peasantry had started wandering in. An 'operational' decision was made by officers to change all that so that they now have the ability to check and prevent, if they wish, anyone they consider 'undesireable' from going in. Maybe they'll soon be employing the services of Metpro...caebrwynhttp://www.carmarthenplanning.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-791817892794754996.post-64925573255338950322011-11-07T14:19:02.615+00:002011-11-07T14:19:02.615+00:00and then blame Mr Mustard when you get arrested ag...and then blame Mr Mustard when you get arrested again ...Mrs Angryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00586223909475832791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-791817892794754996.post-52867610034383157662011-11-07T13:00:13.149+00:002011-11-07T13:00:13.149+00:00I suggest you test the system to see if it works. ...I suggest you test the system to see if it works. Smash the glass and see if the doors do unlock.Mr Mustardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12522242686839965655noreply@blogger.com